Dr. Gibbons Interview_PART2 |
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Oral History Interview with Robert B. Gibbons, MD, MACP
Date: July 24, 2014
Interviewer: Margaret Bandy, AHIP, FMLA
Interview Transcribed by Cyns Nelson
Note: The interviewer and narrator are distinguished by their initials, placed at the start of remarks. Verbal outputs that are not words are placed within parentheses; peripheral or editorial information is placed within brackets, including question marks where spelling is uncertain for names or locations. Words that are spoken with emphasis are placed in italics.
Object Description
| Rating | |
| Title | Oral History Interview with Robert B. Gibbons, MD, MACP; Program Director, Internal Medicine Residency 1984-2014 |
| Subject 1 | Saint Joseph Hospital (Denver, CO) - - History |
| Subject 2 | Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth (Kansas) |
| Subject 3 | Education, Medical, Graduate -- history |
| Description | Oral History Interview with Robert B. Gibbons, MD, MACP Date: July 24, 2014 Interviewer: Margaret Bandy Interview Transcribed by Cyns Nelson Note: The interviewer and narrator are distinguished by their initials, placed at the start of remarks. Verbal outputs that are not words are placed within parentheses; peripheral or editorial information is placed within brackets, including question marks where spelling is uncertain for names or locations. Words that are spoken with emphasis are placed in italics. |
| Publisher | Saint Joseph Hospital |
| Contributer | Margaret Bandy, Medical Librarian/Manager; Tim Rockwood, Multi-Media Coordinator; Eric Neail, AV Technician, Cyns Nelson, Transcriptionist |
| Date Original | 07/24/2014 |
| Date Digital | 07/24/2014; modified 01/23/2019 |
| Format | MP4 |
| Source | Digital Video Recording |
| Rights | In Copyright - Educational Use Only (IC-EDU) |
| Digitization Specifications | Oral History Interview with Robert B. Gibbons, M.D.; MP4; Color; Video Track; Size:5.76 GB; Run Time: 01:21:26 |
Description
| Title | Dr. Gibbons Interview_PART2 |
| Subject 1 | Saint Joseph Hospital (Denver, CO) - - History |
| Subject 2 | Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth (Kansas) |
| Subject 3 | Education, Medical, Graduate -- history |
| Description | Oral History Interview with Robert B. Gibbons, MD, MACP Date: July 24, 2014 Interviewer: Margaret Bandy, AHIP, FMLA Interview Transcribed by Cyns Nelson Note: The interviewer and narrator are distinguished by their initials, placed at the start of remarks. Verbal outputs that are not words are placed within parentheses; peripheral or editorial information is placed within brackets, including question marks where spelling is uncertain for names or locations. Words that are spoken with emphasis are placed in italics. |
| Publisher | Saint Joseph Hospital |
| Contributer | Margaret Bandy,Medical Librarian/Manager; Tim Rockwood, Multi-Media Coordinator; Eric Neail, AV Technician, Giusseppi Bustios, AV Technician; Cyns Nelson, Transcriptionist |
| Date Original | 07/24/2014 |
| Date Digital | 07/24/2014;modified 01/23/2019 |
| Format | MP4 |
| Source | Digital Video Recording |
| Rights | In Copyright - Educational Use Only (IC-EDU) |
| Transcript | Gibbons Oral History Part 2 And then of course, this Ward 8 was actually run by General [Leonard D.] Heaton, a three-star general. He was the most senior three-star general in the military. And his name was actually on the ward. It said: “Ward Officer, General Heaton, M.D." Of course, he came to visit each person. And he was so powerful, that he determined who got to be admitted to Ward 8. So, if you were just a common, ordinary senator or representative, you didn't get there. You had to be—from the military standpoint—you had to be at least a three-star general or above. And then there were some very prominent senators and representatives admitted, such as Senator [Felix Edward] Hebert from Louisiana, was there. And he was a very good friend of General Heaton's and was responsible for actually starting the medical school, the military medical school, in Bethesda. Because, he was such an advocate for the military. So, if you were an advocate for the military, and you were a prominent figure, then General Heaton would make sure that you got up to that floor. And they had their own cook, and the nurses that were assigned there were absolutely top-flight people. You could have some other kind of prominence. There was a very prominent socialite in Washington, D.C., who was frequently up there because her husband had been —before the beginning of the Second War-- had been an Air Force pilot. And he was tapped, at that time, before the war started, to go to China and to take pilots with him from the United States—who were on active duty; they were fighter pilots. And they went to China to work with Chiang Kai-shek, before the war even began, for the United States. That was General Chennault. And when he was there, he married a very prominent—and wealthy—Chinese woman, whose sister was the wife of Chiang Kai-shek. So, while he was there, of course, he started a very famous unit called the Flying Tigers. They became very prominent. And of course, then when the war broke out, they all came back to be officially in the U.S. Army [Air Force]. But his wife was probably one of the most prominent socialites in Washington, D.C. When she came to the hospital she was immediately put on Ward 8. And she was a very bright, intelligent woman, who had some wonderful stories about her husband. Her husband, at that time, was deceased. And, in fact, when I was there taking care of her, at one time, and was ready to leave, she said: "I want you to have this map." And this is what I have on the wall over here. This is called an escape map. This is a map that the pilots would carry. It folds up into a four-by-four. All silk. And it has, in this case—this escape map—happens to be in China. So, if a pilot was shot down, they would have this map that they could show the Chinese where they had been and how they could get back to their unit, to their base. So this is a map that she gave me, when she was in the [hospital] one time, because one of the pilots had given it to her. So there were a lot of prominent people. There were some people that were admitted to the hospital while I was there, on the Ward 8, that—we never know who they were. I recall being called in one night by Colonel Inman [Army Col. James P. Inman], who wanted me to come in and help take care of a patient with the surgery team. And when I got there, it was interesting—because, in the middle of the night, they had come to the elevator and taken this person up, and there was no name; it was just X. But he was obviously from the Middle East, because his body guards all had typical Arabic clothes on, and carried long knives. And, he had been shot. So he was on the surgery service, but he had some other medical problems. So we took care of him for a number of days. Of course, never made the papers. And then one morning I came to work, and he was gone. MB: [Very faint.] You fixed him up. RG: Primarily, the surgeons fixed him up. MB: Oh, that's amazing. Those are great stories. Are you ever going to write a memoir? RG: Well, there was a good friend of my mine who said: "You know, we need to write a book called Ward 8." But, you know, technically you're not supposed to write about any of your patients, even after they're deceased. So, I don't know whether we could turn that into a novel, and then not use real names or real places. MB: Yes. Well, I know General Eisenhower's, and President Eisenhower's illnesses are well known and well documented. RG: Yes, yes. MB: So, I don't think you're telling anything out of school for that. Well let's shift gears a little bit and talk about when you came to St. Joe's, and why you came here; why you were interested in this position. I wondered, too, did you know Dr. [Marion E.] McDowell [Internal Medicine Program Director] before? RG: No, I didn't. And in fact, I really was ready to sort of leave the military at that time, because I was at Madigan, and I was a senior—pretty senior—department head. I began to get calls from Washington, from the Surgeon General's office, wanting to know: How would I feel about going to a specific hospital to take over as a hospital commander? Or to come back to Washington to be the consultant in Internal Medicine, which was at the Pentagon. And it just wasn't something I wanted to do; I loved to teach and to see patients, and I didn't really want to get into an administrative position. Not that they wouldn't have allowed me to continue, but I felt that it was just, you know, that I needed to make a change and to go somewhere where I could do the same thing I'd been doing. So I actually spent a year going around the country to different places that needed a program director, and a chair of medicine. I looked in Oregon and California and Idaho; Connecticut, Texas, Georgia. And I was offered a position in Georgia; the head of the search committee there and I got along very well. He was an old naval officer and was a urologist. And he was the chief of staff of the hospital there. So he and I got along very well. I liked the position and went down a couple times to look at it; he'd sent me a contract, and I was really ready to sign the contract but then had to come to Fitzsimons here in Denver because we all [the program directors] came here every year to select residents, throughout all of the Army. So, every year we'd meet here and spend about four days selecting residents. At that time I got a call. I happened to be out at the barracks, and I got a call from [Dr.] Bob Jones, who was the chief of cardiovascular services here. And he had been in the military. Although I'd never served with him, I knew him from meetings, and courses, and things. So, he called me and said: "Listen, I've heard that you're looking for a position." And I said, "Yeah, I've found one that I think I'm going to accept." And he said, "Well, you know, before you leave and go back to Madigan, come on down, because I'd like to talk to you." So I came down, and he talked to me, and then he said: "Well, do you think you could stay an extra day?" And I said, "Well, why?" And he said, "We're looking for a program director." And he said, "I'd like to have you come down, if you would, and talk to the search committee." So, of course, Mac McDowell was on the search committee. And it turned out that Jones wasn't actually on the search committee, he'd just heard about this. But [Dr.] Dixie Baines was on the search committee. And Dixie, of course, was a very prominent infectious disease physician here. I didn't remember Dixie, because I'd never actually met him. But one of my high school girlfriends—she had gone to college in Oklahoma, and of course I'd stayed and went to Utah State—and she had married Dixie, when she went to Oklahoma. She came from a very prominent family in Utah, when I was growing up. So he said: "Well, you probably know my wife." So there was a lot of things that happened. And then Sister Mary Andrew wanted to speak to me. I was very impressed with Sister Mary Andrew; I mean, she was such a dominant figure, just her presence. She talked to me, for about five minutes—and I soon learned, of course, after that, it didn't take her long to make decisions. So I went back; and the next week I got a call, saying: "We'd like to have you come here and be the program director." I had not yet signed the contract to go to Georgia, Atlanta. So I came here. MB: Well, and we're fortunate that you did! You know, in the back of my mind I want to say: Providence had a hand in this. But who knows? I mean, really, you were so close. RG: Well, and plus, then, what happened to me later was: I'd only been here one, maybe two years—maybe three years. And I got a call from a good friend of mine, who was in the military, who had also retired in Tacoma, Washington, which is where Madigan Army Medical Center was. And a lot of the people that I'd worked with retired and stayed in Washington, either in Seattle, Tacoma, or Olympia. And I got a call from him, and he said, "Listen: I'm on a search committee, we're looking for a Vice President for Medical Affairs at Tacoma General Hospital"—now I think it's Tacoma Medical Center—but Tacoma General Hospital, which was the biggest hospital in Tacoma. "Would you come up and just take a look?" And I said, "Well, I'm not sure that's what I want to do, but I'll come up." I thought it would probably be a little bit inappropriate for me to take time off to go to Tacoma to do an interview without telling Sister. So, I made an appointment and told Sister that I wanted her to know that I was very happy but I'd been invited to go back to Washington—where I had a home, in fact—and that these were all good friends of mine, and we'd been together in the military. And she said: "Okay, Dr. Gibbons, that's fine. I'm glad you let me know." So I went up and looked at the position, and actually I liked the position, with the exception of the fact that there was no teaching involved. I mean, it was strictly an administrative position, but at an excellent hospital. And when I got back, Sister happened to see me in the hall, and she said, "Well, Dr. Gibbons, have you made any kind of decision?" She said, "Because all of us upstairs have been praying for you, that you will stay." MB: And there were a lot of them upstairs— RG: (Chuckling) I know! MB: —in those days! (Laughs.) RG: I think there were probably—there may have been 14 there. Twelve, fourteen, fifteen Sisters. Yeah. So, I got a kick out of her. Anyway, as I thought about it, I decided that: I really wanted to teach, and thought that Sister Mary Andrew was such a tremendous person. And certainly, from having worked for a number of general officers in the military who were absolutely superb people, she was every bit as good as any general I'd ever worked for. MB: Yes, I did want to ask you a little bit about working for her. Because then, when she retired, there was an interval, and then Sister Marianna came. So you've worked for the Sisters; you've worked for lay administrators here, over the years. But I've heard you speak very highly of the Sisters, and working for them. RG: Oh! Absolutely. And Sister Mary Andrew was so easy to work with. And part of it was because of my military experience; because, I found that Sister Mary Andrew functioned a lot like the commanders I had in the military. She was open, she wanted to find out your opinion when there was an issue or a problem. She would listen to you, and then she would give you a decision. There was no task force set up, no committee meetings. No, she knew what she was looking for; she wanted your opinion, and it was: "Okay, I've made a decision, and this is what we're going to do." It was a little bit like: "You know, either get on board or get off the train. I've made a decision." To me, that's the way to run things, which is not quite the political way nowadays. But she always listened to people, and you always felt that your opinion was valued, even though she might decide to do something that wasn't the way you would have done it. I really respected her. And of course, she knew everyone; she knew about everyone, she knew their names. I remember that residents, occasionally, would tell me that: In the middle of the night they'd be up on the floor and suddenly she would appear. And she would be there to talk to the nurses. You know, "How are things going? Is everything okay?" So, she was just a very, very impressive person to work for. MB: She was, yes. I was hired under her tutelage, so I know what you're saying. Sometimes scary, but— RG: Yes, because—but on the other hand, I always felt like she was looking out for my best interests as well. And that she would back me up if I needed something. Yes. She was wonderful. MB: When I was thinking about you being the program director, one question I had—and I thought about it because I've had medical students and residents who've been at the university but then experience the program here, and how much more they like it. I'm sure that has a lot to do with how you've structured the program. But is there a difference? I know the university is a huge program in comparison. But are there other differences that you think may be why they seem to really like being here? In our programs? RG: Well, I think that it's very difficult nowadays at the university. Just imagine: The university at one time was one of those—like where I went to school in Utah—that had 50 or 60 students [in each class]. And now they have a couple hundred students, and the residency program at the university is about 160 residents; our program is 38. So it's very difficult nowadays for a program director to really get to know on a personal level, and to make rounds with everybody. I think that that's a big difference here: Is that it's a smaller program. The faculty is terrific; they're all here because they want to teach. This is why they're here, because they want to be teachers, and they want to take care of patients. And I think the residents see that, and see that there's a sincere interest. I think that we've had a culture here, also, that the people who work with our residents—from either the private staff or the Colorado Permanente staff—are interested in teaching. I think that the students and residents feel that they're peers, even though of course they don't have that kind of magnitude of training. And I think that sort of community feel is really important. You don't see that everywhere. I also think that for program directors, from my perspective—and this is my perspective only—is that: In order to really know the residents and know their needs, you have to be out there with them. So, I think—from the time I was in the military, I always made rounds with the residents on basically a daily basis. Not with every team of course; but with every team at least some time during the week. And that's the way I was trained. This was many years ago, but when I was a resident of Walter Reed, there were nine residents each year. Just like we have here. And the same when I was at Madigan. So, I think that once you have that kind of atmosphere, that everybody's working together, and everybody's here for a single mission—and that's to take good care of patients and to learn to be good doctors—I think when everybody realizes that's what everyone is here for, then I think it makes for a much better learning situation. And I think people are happier. |
| Digitization Specifications | Oral History Interview with Robert B. Gibbons, M.D. Part 2; MP4; Color; Video Track; Size: 1.44 GB; Run Time: 00:20:04; Data Rate: 9998 kbps; Frame Rate: 29 frames/second; Frame Size: 1920x1080; Audio Sample Rate: 48 kHz |
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